Eternalism vs Nihilism. This is the big battle always raging.
What we have amongst the major religions of the world is eternalism and what we have dominating within modernity is nihilism. Remember this as a key distinction.
Traditionalism is a reactionary movement against the nihilism and materialism of modernity. It does a good job first diagnosing many of our issues in today's world while also deconstructing modernity as a paradigm.
It identifies the symptoms of our modern sickness as having their root in a divorce from the transcendent World of Being. Traditionalism states that the primary cause of our issues in the Kali Yuga are due to having had our connection to the transcendental Absolute severed which then has blinded us to spiritual realities and dooms us to incessantly wander in the World of Becoming.
In my view it's really not that hard to understand this according to the Buddhist view of samsara. The World of Being easily correlates with Nirvana and the World of Becoming easily correlates with Samsara.
Now the difference is that Buddhism ultimately understands Nirvana and Samsara to be one - but this is ultimately an esoteric understanding, people do not just readily apprehend this, and I would say that within Traditionalist esotericism they also understand the ultimate nonduality between the World of Being and the World of Becoming.
But the way that Traditionalism frames this, at least on the exoteric level, is very much eternalist. It uses positivist terminology to ascribe characteristics to the Transcendent which itself lends very easily to people developing concepts about reality as opposed to directly realizing the actual nature of reality.
However in the modern age we have a dominating current of nihilism and the Traditionalists identified this and proceeded to prescribe RETVRN as the answer.
What we have amongst the major religions of the world is eternalism and what we have dominating within modernity is nihilism. Remember this as a key distinction.
Traditionalism is a reactionary movement against the nihilism and materialism of modernity. It does a good job first diagnosing many of our issues in today's world while also deconstructing modernity as a paradigm.
It identifies the symptoms of our modern sickness as having their root in a divorce from the transcendent World of Being. Traditionalism states that the primary cause of our issues in the Kali Yuga are due to having had our connection to the transcendental Absolute severed which then has blinded us to spiritual realities and dooms us to incessantly wander in the World of Becoming.
In my view it's really not that hard to understand this according to the Buddhist view of samsara. The World of Being easily correlates with Nirvana and the World of Becoming easily correlates with Samsara.
Now the difference is that Buddhism ultimately understands Nirvana and Samsara to be one - but this is ultimately an esoteric understanding, people do not just readily apprehend this, and I would say that within Traditionalist esotericism they also understand the ultimate nonduality between the World of Being and the World of Becoming.
But the way that Traditionalism frames this, at least on the exoteric level, is very much eternalist. It uses positivist terminology to ascribe characteristics to the Transcendent which itself lends very easily to people developing concepts about reality as opposed to directly realizing the actual nature of reality.
However in the modern age we have a dominating current of nihilism and the Traditionalists identified this and proceeded to prescribe RETVRN as the answer.
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I think that here the Traditionalists are mostly correct in the sense that what we advise someone to do depends upon their current position.
What I am saying here is that most people in our age need to be nudged in the direction of eternalism because this is what will provide them the best grounding and ultimately (in my opinion) the best conditions towards realizing Dharma.
This is not to say we advocate eternalism as hard thing but that we recognize the utility of what is encompassed under the label of "eternalism".
Of course utimately we do not actually want to simply Retvrn as so many Traditionalists advocate. Life is indeed a flowing river and we are in a journey of expanding consciousness.
What we really want to do is build out of our foundation which is to say the positive aspects of Traditionalism which include stability, hierarchy, orientation towards the transcendent and many other aspects which do provide key answers to many modern problems.
But we must also always acknowledge the downsides of Traditionalism or we could just say the imbalanced expression of Traditionalist systems and here is where Jason Reza Jorjani's thought comes into play.
His entire system of Prometheism is based on Traditionalism as being an oppressive system that stifles the creative spirit of man. He frames it as a tyrannical force that smothers our will to power. Prometheus for him is a liberating agent against the stifling and totalitarian Olympians.
This view is an interesting framing in order for him to put forth his own vision, which I can appreciate on those grounds, but it necessarily strawmans certain things.
For example, it has to put the Olympians in an oppressor role and the Titans in a liberator role which is very binary and ignores and positive aspects of reality that the Olympians represent.
To me it makes more sense to recognize that what is being conveyed with the Olympians and Titans is actually forces that are both necessary - broadly speaking could say the one serves as a stabilizing force (which can become oppressive in its imbalanced expression) and the other as an expansion force (which can become unstable/destructive in its imbalanced expression).
But again, the way Jorjani frames these things is according to his own agenda of putting forth Prometheism and so understanding that I can take his insights without needing to fully adopt his frame and throw out everything I've learned.
It should be clear however that there are quite a number of valid critiques of Traditionalism as a framing. Islam should be an obvious one as well as the many examples of the Catholic Church stifling creative thought.
But really what we want to do is synthesize - we want to take the best from both poles.
We should understand that the exoteric level of things will usually be oriented in a way that lends towards eternalism and the esoteric side of thing oriented in a way that lends towards nihilism.
When I say lends towards this only means that it can be easily misunderstood in that direction of things but in its most Dharmic and healthy form it does not do this.
So what is really needed is a thorough understanding of the problem of language and seeing that much of what is understood to be the flaws of eternalism ultimately comes down to attachments to concepts. It comes down to fixating on the finger pointing to the moon. And the flip side is that nihilism comes from realizing the finger is not the moon but then making the incorrect assumption that there is no moon at all.
What I am saying here is that most people in our age need to be nudged in the direction of eternalism because this is what will provide them the best grounding and ultimately (in my opinion) the best conditions towards realizing Dharma.
This is not to say we advocate eternalism as hard thing but that we recognize the utility of what is encompassed under the label of "eternalism".
Of course utimately we do not actually want to simply Retvrn as so many Traditionalists advocate. Life is indeed a flowing river and we are in a journey of expanding consciousness.
What we really want to do is build out of our foundation which is to say the positive aspects of Traditionalism which include stability, hierarchy, orientation towards the transcendent and many other aspects which do provide key answers to many modern problems.
But we must also always acknowledge the downsides of Traditionalism or we could just say the imbalanced expression of Traditionalist systems and here is where Jason Reza Jorjani's thought comes into play.
His entire system of Prometheism is based on Traditionalism as being an oppressive system that stifles the creative spirit of man. He frames it as a tyrannical force that smothers our will to power. Prometheus for him is a liberating agent against the stifling and totalitarian Olympians.
This view is an interesting framing in order for him to put forth his own vision, which I can appreciate on those grounds, but it necessarily strawmans certain things.
For example, it has to put the Olympians in an oppressor role and the Titans in a liberator role which is very binary and ignores and positive aspects of reality that the Olympians represent.
To me it makes more sense to recognize that what is being conveyed with the Olympians and Titans is actually forces that are both necessary - broadly speaking could say the one serves as a stabilizing force (which can become oppressive in its imbalanced expression) and the other as an expansion force (which can become unstable/destructive in its imbalanced expression).
But again, the way Jorjani frames these things is according to his own agenda of putting forth Prometheism and so understanding that I can take his insights without needing to fully adopt his frame and throw out everything I've learned.
It should be clear however that there are quite a number of valid critiques of Traditionalism as a framing. Islam should be an obvious one as well as the many examples of the Catholic Church stifling creative thought.
But really what we want to do is synthesize - we want to take the best from both poles.
We should understand that the exoteric level of things will usually be oriented in a way that lends towards eternalism and the esoteric side of thing oriented in a way that lends towards nihilism.
When I say lends towards this only means that it can be easily misunderstood in that direction of things but in its most Dharmic and healthy form it does not do this.
So what is really needed is a thorough understanding of the problem of language and seeing that much of what is understood to be the flaws of eternalism ultimately comes down to attachments to concepts. It comes down to fixating on the finger pointing to the moon. And the flip side is that nihilism comes from realizing the finger is not the moon but then making the incorrect assumption that there is no moon at all.
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Esoteric Dixie Dharma pinned «So, the big split in science is between Newtonian mechanics and Quantum mechanics. The Newtonian model does a great job on the outer level of things, and our understanding of this model has totally changed the way we engage with the world. This has been…»
Esoteric Dixie Dharma pinned «Also, it isn't only Quantum mechanics, but there are other scientific methods of subverting the dominant slave paradigm of materialism. Two that I can think of off the top are epigenetics and the placebo effect. Really we should be methodically plotting these…»
The material world is only a cover for a perpetual spiritual battle for the minds of men. Control over the minds of men is the highest and greatest control, alongside of which money, fame, and other powers are so many heaps of straw and ash.
– James Shelby Downward
– James Shelby Downward
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Esoteric Dixie Dharma pinned «Eternalism vs Nihilism. This is the big battle always raging. What we have amongst the major religions of the world is eternalism and what we have dominating within modernity is nihilism. Remember this as a key distinction. Traditionalism is a reactionary…»
Forwarded from Radical Middle Path
The winter's darkest, longest night
has springtime faeries dreaming
in hollow trees, concealed from sight,
their skin caressed by gentle light;
The crescent moon's clear wisdom gleaming.
As the forest creaks and bends
to the breath of the rising storm,
the faeries' conscious dream extends
and reaches where the woodland ends,
where our supreme assemblies form.
We unite with intent to transmute our deeds,
and pledge for the ultimate, swift liberation
of every being, to fulfill all their needs;
We offer as incense dry herbs and fine weeds
and bow in true-hearted divine adoration.
With vigor our minds keep striking the air,
the wind thereat moves, the fire blazes,
and the rising red glistening embers bear
a vision of fierce, delightful and fair
spring spirits in dance wearing ash-colored hazes.
In time, their song will ring throughout
the hearts and woods and fields;
Their spells alleviate all doubt,
great joy their waking brings about;
The light returns.
The fire burns.
We turn to bliss what darkness yields.
has springtime faeries dreaming
in hollow trees, concealed from sight,
their skin caressed by gentle light;
The crescent moon's clear wisdom gleaming.
As the forest creaks and bends
to the breath of the rising storm,
the faeries' conscious dream extends
and reaches where the woodland ends,
where our supreme assemblies form.
We unite with intent to transmute our deeds,
and pledge for the ultimate, swift liberation
of every being, to fulfill all their needs;
We offer as incense dry herbs and fine weeds
and bow in true-hearted divine adoration.
With vigor our minds keep striking the air,
the wind thereat moves, the fire blazes,
and the rising red glistening embers bear
a vision of fierce, delightful and fair
spring spirits in dance wearing ash-colored hazes.
In time, their song will ring throughout
the hearts and woods and fields;
Their spells alleviate all doubt,
great joy their waking brings about;
The light returns.
The fire burns.
We turn to bliss what darkness yields.
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Being lost is better than being asleep.
Being aware, even if you have defilements, is better than being absent-minded.
If you know you have defilements, you can work to end them.
A person who's not aware is dead.
– Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo
Being aware, even if you have defilements, is better than being absent-minded.
If you know you have defilements, you can work to end them.
A person who's not aware is dead.
– Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo
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Long thread touching on eternalism, esotericism, and our boy Jorjani that started as a response to my post on Eternalism vs Nihilism found here:
START
https://news.1rj.ru/str/c/1573163006/28829
END
https://news.1rj.ru/str/c/1573163006/28965
Tldr: Jorjani both is and is not talking about what you think he's talking about.
START
https://news.1rj.ru/str/c/1573163006/28829
END
https://news.1rj.ru/str/c/1573163006/28965
Tldr: Jorjani both is and is not talking about what you think he's talking about.
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Trvsting is a pre requisite to thrvsting.
Your capacity to thrvst directly correlates to your level of trvst.
Wisdom and Method
Trvst the plan, be the man 😎
Your capacity to thrvst directly correlates to your level of trvst.
Wisdom and Method
Trvst the plan, be the man 😎
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