When was Tywin’s cunning brilliance actually shown in the book?
It’s been a while since I read the books but I feel like, from memory, Tywin Lannister was portrayed as this cunning and dangerous strategist who basically outclassed his peers.
However everything I remember was either a pretty standard backroom deal or characters just taking about him with almost fearful reverence. Are the actual examples of him pulling off a master stroke outside basically buying off the Freys and Tyrell’s?
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It’s been a while since I read the books but I feel like, from memory, Tywin Lannister was portrayed as this cunning and dangerous strategist who basically outclassed his peers.
However everything I remember was either a pretty standard backroom deal or characters just taking about him with almost fearful reverence. Are the actual examples of him pulling off a master stroke outside basically buying off the Freys and Tyrell’s?
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Just Finished My 2nd Rewatch
I just finished watching GOT for the 2nd time and I enjoyed it so much! It’s been a few years since I watched the first time, so I forgot much of what happened. Of course, that made it even better! I just joined this group and I see a lot of you discussing the books. Are those worth reading? I want some insight on your favorite ones and if you think they’ve done a great job so far in comparison to what we’ve seen in both the GOT and HOTD series. I’m looking forward to A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms in January too! Thoughts?
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I just finished watching GOT for the 2nd time and I enjoyed it so much! It’s been a few years since I watched the first time, so I forgot much of what happened. Of course, that made it even better! I just joined this group and I see a lot of you discussing the books. Are those worth reading? I want some insight on your favorite ones and if you think they’ve done a great job so far in comparison to what we’ve seen in both the GOT and HOTD series. I’m looking forward to A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms in January too! Thoughts?
https://redd.it/1opni79
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If it was always intended for Jon to go live Beyond the Wall, they didn't do a good job at making us want that for his character.
My opinion will always be that they did a major disservice to Jon's character. He spent his entire life being treated poorly by Catelyn, because he was a bastard. She wanted nothing more than for the bastard son to disappear into nothingness so that her trueborn children could be free to prosper without his influence. And that's exactly what happened. And that's why it feels icky and unsatisfying to me.
The Starks used Jon to do their dirty work....fighting off the Night King and killing Dany....then sent him off to purgatory while Sansa and Bran got to rule. That's not satisfying to me as a showwatcher/reader. That's a happy ending for Catelyn Stark. That confirms Catelyn Stark's treatment of Jon. That he was nothing and would never be anything (when we, the viewer, know his real parentage). In most stories, Jon would have risen above Catelyn's assessment of him and became something great.
With that said, if Jon's ending was to go Beyond the Wall, the show did a terrible job at making us WANT TO SEE THAT. Arya's journey to the lands West of Westeros feels exciting. But, when Jon is meeting up with Sansa, Arya, and Bran in King's Landing, it feels like he's being sent to exile.
IMO, they should have made us want to see him with the Wildlings.
A. There was no need for a second King in the North scene with the Northerners. We already had it with Robb. You should've had this scene with the Wildings instead. You could've easily intermixed Ned finding Lyanna and baby Jon with a scene of Jon being accepted by the Wildings as their new leader after Mance. That gives us a reason to be interested in Jon's ending with the Free Folk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgDg6IF7tmU
B. Jon should have had a new love interest in the Wildings. Maybe this was Val's purpose in the books but, this should've happened in the show. This character, I think her name was Karsi, could've been that new interest but, they killed her off. Give Jon some conflict - make him have to choose between a woman he cares about over there with the Wildlings and Dany, who could have been his chance at becoming a royal.
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/25a75e\_90aa4beba3ad45e0814bcf73c83599f1.png/v1/fill/w\_806,h\_446,al\_c,lg\_1,q\_85/25a75e\_90aa4beba3ad45e0814bcf73c83599f1.png
C. The end scene with Jon joining the Wildlings and the gate closing wasn't enough. There should have been a second scene five years into the future with an Older Jon. or maybe 20 years into the future. This scene should have shown a beautiful countryside - showing that the Lands Beyond the Wall had their own beauty and it should have shown Jon with his wife and his son. That would have appeased fans - so even if Jon didn't become King, it would've shown that he found peace and happiness, that he has a family, and is free from everything. Not a scene hinting that this would happen but, an actual scene showing him becoming "Ned" to his own kids. The Hunger Games did a good job with this with their epilogue, showing Katniss and Peeta together. I'm sure fans would have liked to see Jon in the equivalent of the Scottish Highlands with his wife, son, and people. That would have made the ending more tolerable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZd2hEe83Co
https://redd.it/1opo8ya
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My opinion will always be that they did a major disservice to Jon's character. He spent his entire life being treated poorly by Catelyn, because he was a bastard. She wanted nothing more than for the bastard son to disappear into nothingness so that her trueborn children could be free to prosper without his influence. And that's exactly what happened. And that's why it feels icky and unsatisfying to me.
The Starks used Jon to do their dirty work....fighting off the Night King and killing Dany....then sent him off to purgatory while Sansa and Bran got to rule. That's not satisfying to me as a showwatcher/reader. That's a happy ending for Catelyn Stark. That confirms Catelyn Stark's treatment of Jon. That he was nothing and would never be anything (when we, the viewer, know his real parentage). In most stories, Jon would have risen above Catelyn's assessment of him and became something great.
With that said, if Jon's ending was to go Beyond the Wall, the show did a terrible job at making us WANT TO SEE THAT. Arya's journey to the lands West of Westeros feels exciting. But, when Jon is meeting up with Sansa, Arya, and Bran in King's Landing, it feels like he's being sent to exile.
IMO, they should have made us want to see him with the Wildlings.
A. There was no need for a second King in the North scene with the Northerners. We already had it with Robb. You should've had this scene with the Wildings instead. You could've easily intermixed Ned finding Lyanna and baby Jon with a scene of Jon being accepted by the Wildings as their new leader after Mance. That gives us a reason to be interested in Jon's ending with the Free Folk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgDg6IF7tmU
B. Jon should have had a new love interest in the Wildings. Maybe this was Val's purpose in the books but, this should've happened in the show. This character, I think her name was Karsi, could've been that new interest but, they killed her off. Give Jon some conflict - make him have to choose between a woman he cares about over there with the Wildlings and Dany, who could have been his chance at becoming a royal.
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/25a75e\_90aa4beba3ad45e0814bcf73c83599f1.png/v1/fill/w\_806,h\_446,al\_c,lg\_1,q\_85/25a75e\_90aa4beba3ad45e0814bcf73c83599f1.png
C. The end scene with Jon joining the Wildlings and the gate closing wasn't enough. There should have been a second scene five years into the future with an Older Jon. or maybe 20 years into the future. This scene should have shown a beautiful countryside - showing that the Lands Beyond the Wall had their own beauty and it should have shown Jon with his wife and his son. That would have appeased fans - so even if Jon didn't become King, it would've shown that he found peace and happiness, that he has a family, and is free from everything. Not a scene hinting that this would happen but, an actual scene showing him becoming "Ned" to his own kids. The Hunger Games did a good job with this with their epilogue, showing Katniss and Peeta together. I'm sure fans would have liked to see Jon in the equivalent of the Scottish Highlands with his wife, son, and people. That would have made the ending more tolerable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZd2hEe83Co
https://redd.it/1opo8ya
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YouTube
The King in the North - The White Wolf - Jon Snow
After the defeat of House Bolton. House Stark and their allies gather to celebrate and plan the next steps.
A new King in the North arises. And his name is Jon Snow. All the northern houses pledge fealty to the new King.
The Lords Manderly and Glover regret…
A new King in the North arises. And his name is Jon Snow. All the northern houses pledge fealty to the new King.
The Lords Manderly and Glover regret…
Fun fact:during the entirety of the main events,only two people and thier factions dealt military defeateds to the lannisters.
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Just finished GoT
Phuuuu…
I absolutely loved this series. I have never seen anything better than Game of Thrones.
But holy cow, they completely massacred it at the end.
The last two seasons were already a bit overloaded with action, but I still enjoyed most of it, just not as much as the earlier ones. Then came the final two episodes, and what a downfall. The one before the finale already felt rushed, but the last one was like a fever dream. It did not feel real. At one point I honestly thought Tyrion was just dreaming in his cell.
Everything before had been created with so much professionalism, love, intensity and passion, and then suddenly it felt like I was watching a school play trying to teach moral lessons and glorify democracy. It felt unreal. Even after a good night of sleep I am still in shock.
https://redd.it/1opujbi
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Phuuuu…
I absolutely loved this series. I have never seen anything better than Game of Thrones.
But holy cow, they completely massacred it at the end.
The last two seasons were already a bit overloaded with action, but I still enjoyed most of it, just not as much as the earlier ones. Then came the final two episodes, and what a downfall. The one before the finale already felt rushed, but the last one was like a fever dream. It did not feel real. At one point I honestly thought Tyrion was just dreaming in his cell.
Everything before had been created with so much professionalism, love, intensity and passion, and then suddenly it felt like I was watching a school play trying to teach moral lessons and glorify democracy. It felt unreal. Even after a good night of sleep I am still in shock.
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Should I watch Game of Thrones if I like Lord of the Rings and Hobbit?
I'm also a Skyrim and Oblivion enjoyer and I also love the Inheritance Cycle books. I know this show is... sexual in nature, not completely uncomfortable with it, but as long as it's not every episode, I'm fine with it
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I'm also a Skyrim and Oblivion enjoyer and I also love the Inheritance Cycle books. I know this show is... sexual in nature, not completely uncomfortable with it, but as long as it's not every episode, I'm fine with it
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Why didn’t Tywin remarry?
Given how focused he is on duty to the family does anyone else find it odd Tywin never remarried? Yes, I know he was in love with his late wife…but as Tywin knows and has shown time and time again in the game of thrones you don’t need love for a marriage. He could have strengthened House Lannister by remarrying.
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Given how focused he is on duty to the family does anyone else find it odd Tywin never remarried? Yes, I know he was in love with his late wife…but as Tywin knows and has shown time and time again in the game of thrones you don’t need love for a marriage. He could have strengthened House Lannister by remarrying.
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