How to beat an argument:
“Nazis are too few in Ukraine”, “Less than x% supports them” etc.
It’s all quite easy once you put Nassim Taleb to the job. Read his superb article:
💯The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority
“Nazis are too few in Ukraine”, “Less than x% supports them” etc.
It’s all quite easy once you put Nassim Taleb to the job. Read his superb article:
💯The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority
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Video: Ukrainian President Poroshenko threatens to bomb Donbass children, 2014
This is an old footage dating back 18.11.2014*, so you might've seen it already, but still some didn't...
The Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko declares an economic blockade of Lugansk and Donetsk so that the residents of Donbass region wouldn't get any jobs, pension, documents, won't be able to make inquieries to gov.insitutes or recieve education.
Culminating his passionate speech, the president said:
"Our children will go to schools but the Donbass children would be sitting in the basements**".
As President Proshenko puts it:
"This is the way, the way in which we'll win this war".
* According to the BBC by the 2 December, at least 1,000 people had died during fighting in the Donbas, since the signing of the Minsk Protocol in early September. So this speech by the Ukrainian President was made amidst fighting the civil war.
** Why the basements you might ask? Why all of a sudden the Presidents himself utters such nonsence? Well, the shelling of Donetsk already started and people are hiding in their basements from the artillery and the Ukraine airforces.
This is an old footage dating back 18.11.2014*, so you might've seen it already, but still some didn't...
The Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko declares an economic blockade of Lugansk and Donetsk so that the residents of Donbass region wouldn't get any jobs, pension, documents, won't be able to make inquieries to gov.insitutes or recieve education.
Culminating his passionate speech, the president said:
"Our children will go to schools but the Donbass children would be sitting in the basements**".
As President Proshenko puts it:
"This is the way, the way in which we'll win this war".
* According to the BBC by the 2 December, at least 1,000 people had died during fighting in the Donbas, since the signing of the Minsk Protocol in early September. So this speech by the Ukrainian President was made amidst fighting the civil war.
** Why the basements you might ask? Why all of a sudden the Presidents himself utters such nonsence? Well, the shelling of Donetsk already started and people are hiding in their basements from the artillery and the Ukraine airforces.
YouTube
MUST SEE! Ukrainian President Poroshenko threatens to bomb kids! [Eng Subs]
During a speech in Odessa on the war on Donbass, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko mentions how the residents of the two terrorist regions of Lugansk and Donetsk will not receive any benefits, as well as their children will have to live in basements instead…
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El Pais (Spain): the Ukrainian fascists were elevated to national heroes, 2014
quote:
This historical memory contemplates the action of the partisans of the UPA, the Ukrainian Rebel Army, which survived until the early fifties, as a heroic fight against an external enemy. But it does not assume - or only to a very small extent - the fact that the Ukrainian "patriots" who prevailed were the most nationalist faction, a fascist movement guilty of horrendous crimes, which murdered tens of thousands of Poles, Ukrainians, Jews. The participation of Ukrainian fascism in the Holocaust is undeniable, its consideration of the Jew as an enemy in all aspects, not very different from that of the Nazis.
... when the most nationalistic Ukrainians ruled, the Ukrainian fascists were elevated to national heroes and the Holodomor was sanctified.
P.S. on the photo:
1️⃣foreground: an UPA veteran,
2️⃣background(left): The National Corps (AZOV nazis political party) members
3️⃣background(right): The Right Sector members
quote:
This historical memory contemplates the action of the partisans of the UPA, the Ukrainian Rebel Army, which survived until the early fifties, as a heroic fight against an external enemy. But it does not assume - or only to a very small extent - the fact that the Ukrainian "patriots" who prevailed were the most nationalist faction, a fascist movement guilty of horrendous crimes, which murdered tens of thousands of Poles, Ukrainians, Jews. The participation of Ukrainian fascism in the Holocaust is undeniable, its consideration of the Jew as an enemy in all aspects, not very different from that of the Nazis.
... when the most nationalistic Ukrainians ruled, the Ukrainian fascists were elevated to national heroes and the Holodomor was sanctified.
P.S. on the photo:
1️⃣foreground: an UPA veteran,
2️⃣background(left): The National Corps (AZOV nazis political party) members
3️⃣background(right): The Right Sector members
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Ukraine Nazis from the AZOV regiment are celebrating The New Year (2015) with .... Hitler's spirit.
1st photo:
1. The spirit itself
2. A guy with The Black Corps insignia
3. Another guy for a reference
2nd photo:
a) Guys 2 and 3 from the 1st photo are clearly visible.
b) AZOV, The Right Sector insignias are visible.
3rd photo:
The Black Corps inisignias on the shoulders
4th photo:
Another variation of The Black Corps insignia now with "Azov" Letters on it
P.S. before the official establishment of the Azov battalion it was known as “The Black Corps” which was an explicit reference to the SS newspaper “Das Schwarze Korps”
1st photo:
1. The spirit itself
2. A guy with The Black Corps insignia
3. Another guy for a reference
2nd photo:
a) Guys 2 and 3 from the 1st photo are clearly visible.
b) AZOV, The Right Sector insignias are visible.
3rd photo:
The Black Corps inisignias on the shoulders
4th photo:
Another variation of The Black Corps insignia now with "Azov" Letters on it
P.S. before the official establishment of the Azov battalion it was known as “The Black Corps” which was an explicit reference to the SS newspaper “Das Schwarze Korps”
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Channel 9 (Israel): What happens when an intelligent rabbi being invited to speak about Ukraine, 2022
In Israel a Russian language TV channel has invited Mikhail Finkel (Rabbi, political scientist and doctor of law) to discuss Ukraine matters.
The host didn't like the results at all.
P.S. after the broadcast Mikhail Finkel was added to a state run "Enemies of Ukraine Database"
P.P.S. the original video (in Russian)
In Israel a Russian language TV channel has invited Mikhail Finkel (Rabbi, political scientist and doctor of law) to discuss Ukraine matters.
The host didn't like the results at all.
P.S. after the broadcast Mikhail Finkel was added to a state run "Enemies of Ukraine Database"
P.P.S. the original video (in Russian)
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Reuters: Member of Ukraine Parliament was a leader of pro-white supremacy, pro-racial purity paramilitary group, 2015
>>>Before reading, please, bare in mind:
💥 Andrey Biletsky was a Member of Ukraine Parliament from 2014 up to 2019
quote:
"""
The Azov battalion originated from Biletsky's paramilitary national socialist group called "Patriot of Ukraine" (wiki, a dedicated post), which propagated slogans of white supremacy, racial purity, the need for authoritarian power and a centralized national economy.
"Patriot of Ukraine" opposed giving up Ukraine's sovereignty by joining international blocs, called for rolling back of liberal economy and political democracy, including free media.
In 2008, Biletsky urged "thousands of young fanatic apostles" to advance its ideas. Local media have reported on several violent incidents in which the group was involved.
Since Azov was officially created last May (2015), it has been involved in fighting on the outskirts of the rebel stronghold of Donetsk, a battle for the town of Illovaysk which Ukrainian forces lost last summer and across the coast of the Sea of Azov.
But, since Azov was enrolled as a regiment of Ukraine's National Guard in September and started receiving increased supplies of heavy arms, Biletsky has toned down his rhetoric.
Most of "Patriot of Ukraine" websites are now down or under restricted access. He denied Azov's symbol was a reference to Nazism, saying it was rather a Ukrainian nationalist symbol.
Biletsky said he now has infantry and artillery units and was building a proper tank force. His troops training on the cannons in Urzuf* were heavily armed with quality uniforms.
""" === end of quote===
More on Biletsky:
▫️BBC: Member of Ukraine Parliament prepares for expansion of the White Race, for punishing sexual perversions and any interracial contacts, 2014
▫️The Guardian: Member of Ukraine Parliament will lead the white races in a final crusade against semite-led Untermenschen, 2010
▫️Photos: Biletskiy celebrates The New Year in a nazi fashion, 2015 (read the post above the linked comments)
*the article mentions the city of Urzuf as AZOV's HQ. There are some 2022 photo and video materials from this HQ (already captured by the Russian/DPR/LPR forces):
▫️a video tour around the base and its internals; (Ukraine uber alles and other mottos on the walls)
▫️some photos from the inside; (some swastikas)
▫️in this video (first second of it) you can see the same colorful gates as in the main photo of the Telegraph's article;
▫️I'm not sure but this too could have been filmed in Urzuf. In the video Azov nazis salute and worship pagan gods.
>>>Before reading, please, bare in mind:
💥 Andrey Biletsky was a Member of Ukraine Parliament from 2014 up to 2019
quote:
"""
The Azov battalion originated from Biletsky's paramilitary national socialist group called "Patriot of Ukraine" (wiki, a dedicated post), which propagated slogans of white supremacy, racial purity, the need for authoritarian power and a centralized national economy.
"Patriot of Ukraine" opposed giving up Ukraine's sovereignty by joining international blocs, called for rolling back of liberal economy and political democracy, including free media.
In 2008, Biletsky urged "thousands of young fanatic apostles" to advance its ideas. Local media have reported on several violent incidents in which the group was involved.
Since Azov was officially created last May (2015), it has been involved in fighting on the outskirts of the rebel stronghold of Donetsk, a battle for the town of Illovaysk which Ukrainian forces lost last summer and across the coast of the Sea of Azov.
But, since Azov was enrolled as a regiment of Ukraine's National Guard in September and started receiving increased supplies of heavy arms, Biletsky has toned down his rhetoric.
Most of "Patriot of Ukraine" websites are now down or under restricted access. He denied Azov's symbol was a reference to Nazism, saying it was rather a Ukrainian nationalist symbol.
Biletsky said he now has infantry and artillery units and was building a proper tank force. His troops training on the cannons in Urzuf* were heavily armed with quality uniforms.
""" === end of quote===
More on Biletsky:
▫️BBC: Member of Ukraine Parliament prepares for expansion of the White Race, for punishing sexual perversions and any interracial contacts, 2014
▫️The Guardian: Member of Ukraine Parliament will lead the white races in a final crusade against semite-led Untermenschen, 2010
▫️Photos: Biletskiy celebrates The New Year in a nazi fashion, 2015 (read the post above the linked comments)
*the article mentions the city of Urzuf as AZOV's HQ. There are some 2022 photo and video materials from this HQ (already captured by the Russian/DPR/LPR forces):
▫️a video tour around the base and its internals; (Ukraine uber alles and other mottos on the walls)
▫️some photos from the inside; (some swastikas)
▫️in this video (first second of it) you can see the same colorful gates as in the main photo of the Telegraph's article;
▫️I'm not sure but this too could have been filmed in Urzuf. In the video Azov nazis salute and worship pagan gods.
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UN report: 81,4% of civilian casualties in the Donbas were in rebel-held territory, (2018 -- 2021)
According to UN figures, during the Ukraine Civil War from 2018 to 2021,
▫️81,4% of civilian casualties were in rebel-held territory.
▫️16.3% were in Ukrainian gov't-controlled territory.
The reasons for such an asymmetry? Here are the reason:
1️⃣ The Telegraph (UK): Kiev throws openly neo-Nazi paramilitary into the front of the battle with the Donbass rebels, 2014
2️⃣ Die Welt: Ukraine Army position heavy artillery in residential areas, close to social infrastructure, hospitals, 2022
1️⃣ + 2️⃣ = Ukrainian nazis using the civilians on their territories as human-shield, so the Donbass Army doesn't shoot there. While Ukraine shells whatever it wants in Donbass.
According to UN figures, during the Ukraine Civil War from 2018 to 2021,
▫️81,4% of civilian casualties were in rebel-held territory.
▫️16.3% were in Ukrainian gov't-controlled territory.
The reasons for such an asymmetry? Here are the reason:
1️⃣ The Telegraph (UK): Kiev throws openly neo-Nazi paramilitary into the front of the battle with the Donbass rebels, 2014
2️⃣ Die Welt: Ukraine Army position heavy artillery in residential areas, close to social infrastructure, hospitals, 2022
1️⃣ + 2️⃣ = Ukrainian nazis using the civilians on their territories as human-shield, so the Donbass Army doesn't shoot there. While Ukraine shells whatever it wants in Donbass.
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French Senator: Activity of neo-Nazi parties in Ukraine becomes more visible, 2021
French Senator Natalie Goulet, after a trip to Kyiv in May 2021, criticized the Ukrainian authorities for spreading neo-Nazi ideology. She expressed her indignation in the demand to the French Foreign Ministry that the condemnation of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine become the official position of Paris.
Her appeal was published in the official journal of the French Senate:
Quote:
“Mrs Natalie Goulet asks the Minister for European Affairs and Foreign Affairs about the situation in Ukraine. Indeed, the activity of neo-Nazi parties is becoming more visible, including in the center of Kyiv, with shooting ranges, the practice of assembling and disassembling Kalashnikov assault rifles, and offices for recruiting young people into units that clearly lay claim to Nazi ideology.
Documents proving the identity of Nazi soldiers who died during the war, including members of the Sonderkommando, are available for free sale on Andreevsky Descent, Kiev. This comes at the same time as the training of white supremacist volunteers who are instigating attacks across Europe on behalf of the infamous Azov Regiment. These actions are of the utmost concern, and she would like to know what the position of the Ministry for Europe and Foreign Affairs is on this issue and what measures it intends to take to avoid the spread of this deadly ideology.”
=== end of the quote===
The French Foreign Ministry replied that, in fact, neo-Nazi organizations have no influence on Ukrainian politics, because they are not represented in the Rada, and Zelensky was elected by the people in accordance with the principles of democracy. The response also says that the conflict in Ukraine 2014, although provoked the emergence of the Nazi movements, but now those nazis have disappeared.
It's like a kind of magic: "and now they disappear"... it's EU magic, I tell you!
French Senator Natalie Goulet, after a trip to Kyiv in May 2021, criticized the Ukrainian authorities for spreading neo-Nazi ideology. She expressed her indignation in the demand to the French Foreign Ministry that the condemnation of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine become the official position of Paris.
Her appeal was published in the official journal of the French Senate:
Quote:
“Mrs Natalie Goulet asks the Minister for European Affairs and Foreign Affairs about the situation in Ukraine. Indeed, the activity of neo-Nazi parties is becoming more visible, including in the center of Kyiv, with shooting ranges, the practice of assembling and disassembling Kalashnikov assault rifles, and offices for recruiting young people into units that clearly lay claim to Nazi ideology.
Documents proving the identity of Nazi soldiers who died during the war, including members of the Sonderkommando, are available for free sale on Andreevsky Descent, Kiev. This comes at the same time as the training of white supremacist volunteers who are instigating attacks across Europe on behalf of the infamous Azov Regiment. These actions are of the utmost concern, and she would like to know what the position of the Ministry for Europe and Foreign Affairs is on this issue and what measures it intends to take to avoid the spread of this deadly ideology.”
=== end of the quote===
The French Foreign Ministry replied that, in fact, neo-Nazi organizations have no influence on Ukrainian politics, because they are not represented in the Rada, and Zelensky was elected by the people in accordance with the principles of democracy. The response also says that the conflict in Ukraine 2014, although provoked the emergence of the Nazi movements, but now those nazis have disappeared.
It's like a kind of magic: "and now they disappear"... it's EU magic, I tell you!
Wikipedia
Nathalie Goulet
French politician
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OdaTV (Turkey): Azov's commander was a leader of neo-nazi FC fans, 2022
Dynamo Kyiv FC = DKFC
quote:
DKFC hooligans joined Neo-Nazi paramilitary, notably the Azov, Kraken, and Aydar Battalions, which advocated ideas of racism and Nazism.
...
Denis Prokopenko, who was a DKFC tribune leader, nickname "Redis", joined Azov in 2014.
=end of quote=
photos:
1️⃣ DKFC fans — The White Boys
2️⃣DKFC stadium. The White Boys
3️⃣DKFC fans' banner: "100% White"
4️⃣Denis Prokopenko
5️⃣Denis on The Black Sun's magazine cover (the official Azov's magazine)
P.S. Since the first Ukrainian volunteer battalions to fight against Donbas were drafted mostly from the members of soccer(football) fan clubs, it is vital to understand who were those 'fans' back in the days:
The Daily Mail: Do not be surprised to see fascist filth in the staduim stands, identified by Ukraine's Ministry of Internal Affairs as a hot-bed for racism, 2009
BBC: Fascist salute was a gesture I would see at every Ukrainian [soccer] game I went to, 2012
Dynamo Kyiv FC = DKFC
quote:
DKFC hooligans joined Neo-Nazi paramilitary, notably the Azov, Kraken, and Aydar Battalions, which advocated ideas of racism and Nazism.
...
Denis Prokopenko, who was a DKFC tribune leader, nickname "Redis", joined Azov in 2014.
=end of quote=
photos:
1️⃣ DKFC fans — The White Boys
2️⃣DKFC stadium. The White Boys
3️⃣DKFC fans' banner: "100% White"
4️⃣Denis Prokopenko
5️⃣Denis on The Black Sun's magazine cover (the official Azov's magazine)
P.S. Since the first Ukrainian volunteer battalions to fight against Donbas were drafted mostly from the members of soccer(football) fan clubs, it is vital to understand who were those 'fans' back in the days:
The Daily Mail: Do not be surprised to see fascist filth in the staduim stands, identified by Ukraine's Ministry of Internal Affairs as a hot-bed for racism, 2009
BBC: Fascist salute was a gesture I would see at every Ukrainian [soccer] game I went to, 2012
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The Guardian: Antisemitic echoes in Ukraine, 2012
quote:
Svoboda [Ukrainian political party] is a morbid symptom. While some kind of new European idea of nationhood is waiting to be born, Svoboda adheres to an older, catastrophically failed notion of blood-and-soil nationalism. It is also the fastest-growing political party in western Ukraine.
The party's followers honour the veterans of the Waffen-SS's local Halychyna brigade, formed in 1943 to fight the Soviets. They also pay tribute to the OUN and OUP, militias that carried out a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the region's Polish population during the war that makes the events in Bosnia seem almost tame: disembowelling of Catholic priests, villagers rounded up into barns and churches that were then set on fire.
How much overlap there was between the militiamen and the SS units is a subject of dispute, as is the overlap with earlier groups that helped the Nazis murder more than 95% of the region's Jews – more than 200,000 people – a task that was essentially completed in just 18 months from the beginning of Operation Barbarossa in June 1941 until January 1943.
Svoboda's leaders admire proto-Nazis such as Ernst Jünger, and are "understanding" of Goebbels. They speak of "purity of blood" and Ukraine as "one race, one nation, one fatherland".
"We are against diversity," says Yuri Michalchyshyn, the party's media-savvy young propagandist. "Ukraine is for Ukrainians." But the truth is Ukraine as a pure-blooded nation-state is more an idea than a historical fact.
quote:
Svoboda [Ukrainian political party] is a morbid symptom. While some kind of new European idea of nationhood is waiting to be born, Svoboda adheres to an older, catastrophically failed notion of blood-and-soil nationalism. It is also the fastest-growing political party in western Ukraine.
The party's followers honour the veterans of the Waffen-SS's local Halychyna brigade, formed in 1943 to fight the Soviets. They also pay tribute to the OUN and OUP, militias that carried out a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the region's Polish population during the war that makes the events in Bosnia seem almost tame: disembowelling of Catholic priests, villagers rounded up into barns and churches that were then set on fire.
How much overlap there was between the militiamen and the SS units is a subject of dispute, as is the overlap with earlier groups that helped the Nazis murder more than 95% of the region's Jews – more than 200,000 people – a task that was essentially completed in just 18 months from the beginning of Operation Barbarossa in June 1941 until January 1943.
Svoboda's leaders admire proto-Nazis such as Ernst Jünger, and are "understanding" of Goebbels. They speak of "purity of blood" and Ukraine as "one race, one nation, one fatherland".
"We are against diversity," says Yuri Michalchyshyn, the party's media-savvy young propagandist. "Ukraine is for Ukrainians." But the truth is Ukraine as a pure-blooded nation-state is more an idea than a historical fact.
the Guardian
Euro 2012: antisemitic echoes that threaten celebration of football
Michael Goldfarb discovers an ugly xenophobia rooted in the catastrophic destruction visited on Poland and Ukraine by totalitarian regimes
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NBC News: German TV Shows Nazi Symbols on Helmets of Ukraine Soldiers, 2014
quote:
In a ZDF report on the fragile cease-fire in eastern Ukraine, images were shown of soldiers wearing combat helmets with SS insignia and swastikas.
Germans were confronted with images of their country’s dark past on Monday night, when German public broadcaster ZDF showed video of Ukrainian soldiers with Nazi symbols on their helmets in its evening newscast. In a report on the fragile cease-fire in eastern Ukraine, Moscow correspondent Bernhard Lichte used pictures of a soldier wearing a combat helmet with the "SS runes" of Hitler’s infamous black-uniformed elite corps. A second soldier was seen with a swastika on his gear.
quote:
In a ZDF report on the fragile cease-fire in eastern Ukraine, images were shown of soldiers wearing combat helmets with SS insignia and swastikas.
Germans were confronted with images of their country’s dark past on Monday night, when German public broadcaster ZDF showed video of Ukrainian soldiers with Nazi symbols on their helmets in its evening newscast. In a report on the fragile cease-fire in eastern Ukraine, Moscow correspondent Bernhard Lichte used pictures of a soldier wearing a combat helmet with the "SS runes" of Hitler’s infamous black-uniformed elite corps. A second soldier was seen with a swastika on his gear.
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Ukrainian Truth*: Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine about AZOV: They have peculiar ethics, 2016
quote:
The journalist: Many note your sympathy for the Azov battalion and personally for Biletsky. You gave him weapons and used the services of the battalion, in particular, a group of fighters from the battalion went to meet businessman Dmitry Firtash at the airport.
Arsen Avakov: "Azov" began more than two years ago, in this office, at that table, when we planned the assault and liberation of Mariupol. After that, there was Mariupol, Ilovaisk, Dzerzhinsk, and then an operation in Shirokino. During this time, they - these heroic warriors of Ukraine - have gone a long way from accusations - of nationalism, of Nazism, which was very popular at that time. Before the victories, which were applauded by the whole country, and the obvious recognition from all foreign ambassadors that this unit is one of the most disciplined and most combat-ready in Ukraine.
These are guys with a peculiar ethic. But this is one of the most disciplined units, and this is definitely a combat unit that performs its tasks well for Ukraine.
===end of quote===
*Українська правда — is a Ukrainian online newspaper founded in 2000. The third most popular news website in Ukraine (as of 2015).
quote:
The journalist: Many note your sympathy for the Azov battalion and personally for Biletsky. You gave him weapons and used the services of the battalion, in particular, a group of fighters from the battalion went to meet businessman Dmitry Firtash at the airport.
Arsen Avakov: "Azov" began more than two years ago, in this office, at that table, when we planned the assault and liberation of Mariupol. After that, there was Mariupol, Ilovaisk, Dzerzhinsk, and then an operation in Shirokino. During this time, they - these heroic warriors of Ukraine - have gone a long way from accusations - of nationalism, of Nazism, which was very popular at that time. Before the victories, which were applauded by the whole country, and the obvious recognition from all foreign ambassadors that this unit is one of the most disciplined and most combat-ready in Ukraine.
These are guys with a peculiar ethic. But this is one of the most disciplined units, and this is definitely a combat unit that performs its tasks well for Ukraine.
===end of quote===
*Українська правда — is a Ukrainian online newspaper founded in 2000. The third most popular news website in Ukraine (as of 2015).
Украинская правда
Арсен Аваков: Я прощаю Кернеса. Но я ничего не забыл
О том, что Турчинов с Яценюком делали в кабинете Авакова, о сложностях проекта “Национальная полиция”, о справедливом наказании для Кернеса и главном недостатке министра – в интервью УП.
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